Israel vs. Hamas [Gaza Conflict]


 Topic: Israel vs. Hamas [Gaza Conflict]
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  Posted on July 25, 2014 16:45
johan
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#1
Who's at fault? No racism please, just thoughtful and open responses. How would you resolve the conflict?
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  Posted on July 25, 2014 17:09
hebi212
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#2
I'll give you a full answer:

When Israel finally became a country there were set borders they were given. Israel agreed to the borders while the Arabs did not. Right after Israel became a country they were attacked by all the Muslim countries that surround them in the middle east. Miraculously not only did they win, but they acquired more land than the set borders (which they agreed upon, but the Arabs did not).

Years later in hopes for peace, they handed over Gaza back to the Arabs and they forced out all of the Jews who had been living there. Gaza was given billions of Dollars to turn it into "the new Singapore". Sadly instead of them having a real structure of a government, a terrorist group called Hamas rose to power in Gaza.

Most of the money was invested in weapons for war and tunnels that lead into Israel for terrorist attacks. All the schools they have there and hospitals were mostly already there.

On June 18th last month 3 Israeli teenager were kidnapped on their way back home from school. They were found dead a few weeks later. Gaza and Muslims all over celebrated and handed out candy to children in the streets. A few days later some Israeli extremists decided to take out their anger on an innocent Arab teenager for "revenge" They murdered him. All the people involved were sent to jail and might even get the death penalty for it.

Since this happened Hamas started firing tons of rockets at Israel. Israel gave them multiple warnings to stop. Israel finally started responding by attacking them with different air strikes. Sadly a lot of collateral damage was happening since a lot of innocent people were dying. Israel decided to send in a ground invasion to minimize collateral damage even if it meant risking their own soldiers lives.

Israel signed 3 cease fires during this war and Hamas agreed to none of them. Israel does not want war. For this to end all Hamas has to do is stop shooting and it will end.

To all the people who are crying about human rights and that this is genocide, you should know just this past week 1000 Arabs were killed in Syria by other Arabs.

That's genocide. ISIS is going to town on people who won't convert to be a Muslim but the world seems to be ignoring this. After all when the one Jewish country decides to fire back apparently everything goes to shit.

Also Israel has the power to wipe Gaza off the map completely but they don't. Ask yourself.. if Hamas had the power to wipe Israel off the map would they do it?

Israel is the only democracy in the middle east. You are allowed to believe in whatever religion you choose and Arabs are also given Israeli citizenship.

People don't seem to understand that Hamas is the enemy not Israel.
  Posted on July 25, 2014 17:13
ichi8
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#3
Well, first of all, the Hamas are the ones that started shooting rockets first at this event.
The Hamas, which is an anti-zionist, extreme islamist terror organization, has a few goals in attacking Israel;
First of all, it wants to free his prisoners who were arrested for performing terror attacks.
By attacking Israel and gaining an upper hand, he would be able to blackmail us in the negotiations that will come afterwards.
Another reason is that being anti-zionist is a part of his ideology, and the third one is just like the rest of the terror organizations - he wants to be feared.

Israel's goal in responding to the Hamas' attack is retrieving peace to the southern and center areas of the country, and preventing future casualities to citizens. Of course it also hurts our economy - reduces tourism and things like that.

Israel is currently acting in Gaza against the underground tunnel they created. Those tunnels are very dangerous because they can be used by the Hamas' terrorists to get to Israel's territory and attack citizens.

So, considering all those factors, I'd say the Hamas is in fault.
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  Posted on July 25, 2014 17:26
devilxain
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#4
hebi212 wrote:
I'll give you a full answer:

When Israel finally became a country there were set borders they were given. Israel agreed to the borders while the Arabs did not. Right after Israel became a country they were attacked by all the Muslim countries that surround them in the middle east. Miraculously not only did they win, but they acquired more land than the set borders (which they agreed upon, but the Arabs did not).

Years later in hopes for peace, they handed over Gaza back to the Arabs and they forced out all of the Jews who had been living there. Gaza was given billions of Dollars to turn it into "the new Singapore". Sadly instead of them having a real structure of a government, a terrorist group called Hamas rose to power in Gaza.

Most of the money was invested in weapons for war and tunnels that lead into Israel for terrorist attacks. All the schools they have there and hospitals were mostly already there.

On June 18th last month 3 Israeli teenager were kidnapped on their way back home from school. They were found dead a few weeks later. Gaza and Muslims all over celebrated and handed out candy to children in the streets. A few days later some Israeli extremists decided to take out their anger on an innocent Arab teenager for "revenge" They murdered him. All the people involved were sent to jail and might even get the death penalty for it.

Since this happened Hamas started firing tons of rockets at Israel. Israel gave them multiple warnings to stop. Israel finally started responding by attacking them with different air strikes. Sadly a lot of collateral damage was happening since a lot of innocent people were dying. Israel decided to send in a ground invasion to minimize collateral damage even if it meant risking their own soldiers lives.

Israel signed 3 cease fires during this war and Hamas agreed to none of them. Israel does not want war. For this to end all Hamas has to do is stop shooting and it will end.

To all the people who are crying about human rights and that this is genocide, you should know just this past week 1000 Arabs were killed in Syria by other Arabs.

That's genocide. ISIS is going to town on people who won't convert to be a Muslim but the world seems to be ignoring this. After all when the one Jewish country decides to fire back apparently everything goes to shit.

Also Israel has the power to wipe Gaza off the map completely but they don't. Ask yourself.. if Hamas had the power to wipe Israel off the map would they do it?

Israel is the only democracy in the middle east. You are allowed to believe in whatever religion you choose and Arabs are also given Israeli citizenship.

People don't seem to understand that Hamas is the enemy not Israel.
This seems ike a good explanation

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  Posted on July 25, 2014 17:34
deidarauchiha
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#5
hebi212 wrote:
I'll give you a full answer:

When Israel finally became a country there were set borders they were given. Israel agreed to the borders while the Arabs did not. Right after Israel became a country they were attacked by all the Muslim countries that surround them in the middle east. Miraculously not only did they win, but they acquired more land than the set borders (which they agreed upon, but the Arabs did not).

Years later in hopes for peace, they handed over Gaza back to the Arabs and they forced out all of the Jews who had been living there. Gaza was given billions of Dollars to turn it into "the new Singapore". Sadly instead of them having a real structure of a government, a terrorist group called Hamas rose to power in Gaza.

Most of the money was invested in weapons for war and tunnels that lead into Israel for terrorist attacks. All the schools they have there and hospitals were mostly already there.

On June 18th last month 3 Israeli teenager were kidnapped on their way back home from school. They were found dead a few weeks later. Gaza and Muslims all over celebrated and handed out candy to children in the streets. A few days later some Israeli extremists decided to take out their anger on an innocent Arab teenager for "revenge" They murdered him. All the people involved were sent to jail and might even get the death penalty for it.

Since this happened Hamas started firing tons of rockets at Israel. Israel gave them multiple warnings to stop. Israel finally started responding by attacking them with different air strikes. Sadly a lot of collateral damage was happening since a lot of innocent people were dying. Israel decided to send in a ground invasion to minimize collateral damage even if it meant risking their own soldiers lives.

Israel signed 3 cease fires during this war and Hamas agreed to none of them. Israel does not want war. For this to end all Hamas has to do is stop shooting and it will end.

To all the people who are crying about human rights and that this is genocide, you should know just this past week 1000 Arabs were killed in Syria by other Arabs.

That's genocide. ISIS is going to town on people who won't convert to be a Muslim but the world seems to be ignoring this. After all when the one Jewish country decides to fire back apparently everything goes to shit.

Also Israel has the power to wipe Gaza off the map completely but they don't. Ask yourself.. if Hamas had the power to wipe Israel off the map would they do it?

Israel is the only democracy in the middle east. You are allowed to believe in whatever religion you choose and Arabs are also given Israeli citizenship.

People don't seem to understand that Hamas is the enemy not Israel.
Yeah, this really sums it up.
I will admit I don't understand the conditions and such over there, but this sums it up in a logical way.
It's just sad to hear about every day, I wish they could find a resolve but they blame each other and it's just full on hatred. I think who to blame really is the problem, and it seems clear that Hamas is truly the enemy.
  Posted on July 25, 2014 18:08
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#6
Since this is can be a very touchy subject for a lot of people, and I don't want to close this topic, any posts that I find or deem not serious or contributing to this discussion in a healthy way will be deleted.
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  Posted on July 25, 2014 18:11
kingofdarkness
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#7
So basically you guys give ur statements on basis of only this event?
For several years ppl in PALESTINE are suffering. They have no economy to support the country and then there are artificial barriers created by Israel over them.

They call hamas as resistance over all this which has been done.

"Also Israel has the power to wipe Gaza off the map completely but they don't. Ask yourself.. if Hamas had the power to wipe Israel off the map would they do it?"

^ This statement.
1- Just tell me what remains in that country other than some ppl starving for food?
2- Do you think IF Israel did that, Other countries will let it go?

Definitely, agree that cease fire agreements should have been accepted by Hamas. Since united Nations clearly said only 30% of hamas militants are killed in this all process. 70% are innocent ppl.

Oh and before I get some shitty comments on my post.
THIS IS my Opinion. You have all the right to go against it. And Im against Hamas.
  Posted on July 25, 2014 18:14
saskue789
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#8
nb is probably not the best place to ask but there aren't clear answers as isreal have committed mass murderers of civilians in gaza and a bunch of hamas militants, and hamas has been able to kill a dozen idf personnel.
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  Posted on July 25, 2014 18:15
hebi212
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#9
kingofdarkness wrote:
So basically you guys give ur statements on basis of only this event?
For several years ppl in PALESTINE are suffering. They have no economy to support the country and then there are artificial barriers created by Israel over them.

They call hamas as resistance over all this which has been done.

"Also Israel has the power to wipe Gaza off the map completely but they don't. Ask yourself.. if Hamas had the power to wipe Israel off the map would they do it?"

^ This statement.
1- Just tell me what remains in that country other than some ppl starving for food?
2- Do you think IF Israel did that, Other countries will let it go?

Definitely, agree that cease fire agreements should have been accepted by Hamas. Since united Nations clearly said only 30% of hamas militants are killed in this all process.

Oh and before I get some shitty comments on my post.
THIS IS my Opinion. You have all the right to go against it. And Im against Hamas.
I'm glad you acknowledge Hamas is bad.
I'm not sure i understand what you mean by "1- Just tell me what remains in that country other than some ppl starving for food?"
Please elaborate?

Well that would be difficult to say. But the point isn't how other countries would respond rather that it is in Israel's power to do so. No i don't think it would start world war 3. But then again if Hamas had the power to wipe out Israel, do you think they care if other countries would let that go? Also do you think other countries would let that go?

Bang there's nothing wrong with posting your opinions, it's called debating for a reason.

saskue789 wrote:
nb is probably not the best place to ask but there aren't clear answers as isreal have committed mass murderers of civilians in gaza and a bunch of hamas militants, and hamas has been able to kill a dozen idf personnel.
Tell me what mass murders they've committed please. Also since you care so much for Arabs in Gaza you should also be aware that there's genocide going on in Syria as we speak - Arabs killing Arabs.

Hamas is a known recognized Terrorist group. So Hamas terrorists would be the more correct term instead of militants
  Posted on July 25, 2014 18:25
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#10
@hebi212: Ignore the comments like kingshiz's, it's my job to deal with that. Don't quote anymore of these. They will be removed promptly. Continue with your debate.
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  Posted on July 25, 2014 18:29
kingofdarkness
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#11
Hey les. (not sure if that's you)

By that I mean, what remains in that country? they don't have proper supply of food, no clean water, bad infrastructure, 0 level of foreign investments, below average GDP a very horrible standard of living.

Urm ofc not a WORLD WAR#3 but could lead to war. by observing the amount of protests being conducted all over the world. will possibly result in something.

Why are you dragging that hamas point again? I clearly said Im against them. and yes they wont hold back. But you gotta understand. This is not just hamas, Innocent ppl are also being killed. therefore, Israel wont do it.

We had this convo sometime back in chat too. Like always healthy and interesting.
  Posted on July 25, 2014 18:33
hebi212
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#12
kingofdarkness wrote:
Hey les. (not sure if that's you)

By that I mean, what remains in that country? they don't have proper supply of food, no clean water, bad infrastructure, 0 level of foreign investments, below average GDP a very horrible standard of living.

Urm ofc not a WORLD WAR#3 but could lead to war. by observing the amount of protests being conducted all over the world. will possibly result in something.

Why are you dragging that hamas point again? I clearly said Im against them. and yes they wont hold back. But you gotta understand. This is not just hamas, Innocent ppl are also being killed. therefore, Israel wont do it.

We had this convo sometime back in chat too. Like always healthy and interesting.
OK so to start off, what would remain? Nothing. Gaza would be bombed to smithereens and no life would be left there. What would happen to the land after no one knows.

Could lead to war? You mean a different war because they're currently in a war. Of course Israel won't do this and i never said they would. The point is that they have the option to do so. It's irrelevant that they won't ever do it, the point is they have the power to do so and that they don't exercise this option!

Yeah i know you acknowledge Hamas is bad. But it's still the point that if they had this option they would take out Israel without thinking twice.
  Posted on July 25, 2014 18:40
saskue789
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#13
hebi212 wrote:
kingofdarkness wrote:
So basically you guys give ur statements on basis of only this event?
For several years ppl in PALESTINE are suffering. They have no economy to support the country and then there are artificial barriers created by Israel over them.

They call hamas as resistance over all this which has been done.

"Also Israel has the power to wipe Gaza off the map completely but they don't. Ask yourself.. if Hamas had the power to wipe Israel off the map would they do it?"

^ This statement.
1- Just tell me what remains in that country other than some ppl starving for food?
2- Do you think IF Israel did that, Other countries will let it go?

Definitely, agree that cease fire agreements should have been accepted by Hamas. Since united Nations clearly said only 30% of hamas militants are killed in this all process.

Oh and before I get some shitty comments on my post.
THIS IS my Opinion. You have all the right to go against it. And Im against Hamas.
I'm glad you acknowledge Hamas is bad.
I'm not sure i understand what you mean by "1- Just tell me what remains in that country other than some ppl starving for food?"
Please elaborate?

Well that would be difficult to say. But the point isn't how other countries would respond rather that it is in Israel's power to do so. No i don't think it would start world war 3. But then again if Hamas had the power to wipe out Israel, do you think they care if other countries would let that go? Also do you think other countries would let that go?

Bang there's nothing wrong with posting your opinions, it's called debating for a reason.

saskue789 wrote:
nb is probably not the best place to ask but there aren't clear answers as isreal have committed mass murderers of civilians in gaza and a bunch of hamas militants, and hamas has been able to kill a dozen idf personnel.
Tell me what mass murders they've committed please. Also since you care so much for Arabs in Gaza you should also be aware that there's genocide going on in Syria as we speak - Arabs killing Arabs.

Hamas is a known recognized Terrorist group. So Hamas terrorists would be the more correct term instead of militants


i dont care what you call hamas, but the fact is air striking the civilian homes is not a good way to fight a war. Israel has enough tech and spec ops to take out hamas silently but they would prefer to air strike the whole gaza strip because its easier for them. Now, i dont care about the hamas nor idf, i care about civilians on both sides who are caught in the cross fire. Both the Hamas and Isreali Govt (not citizens) are equally responsible for whats happening


I've Been to a Church, Synagogue and Mosque and they all practically preach peace and love, but when we create these political distinctions people tend to start disagreeing and kill each other.


only resolution i see is someone creating a group of all 3 religions i mentioned above which preaches peace, love, and unity!
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  Posted on July 25, 2014 18:43
kingofdarkness
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#14
hebi212 wrote:
kingofdarkness wrote:
Hey les. (not sure if that's you)

By that I mean, what remains in that country? they don't have proper supply of food, no clean water, bad infrastructure, 0 level of foreign investments, below average GDP a very horrible standard of living.

Urm ofc not a WORLD WAR#3 but could lead to war. by observing the amount of protests being conducted all over the world. will possibly result in something.

Why are you dragging that hamas point again? I clearly said Im against them. and yes they wont hold back. But you gotta understand. This is not just hamas, Innocent ppl are also being killed. therefore, Israel wont do it.

We had this convo sometime back in chat too. Like always healthy and interesting.
OK so to start off, what would remain? Nothing. Gaza would be bombed to smithereens and no life would be left there. What would happen to the land after no one knows.

Could lead to war? You mean a different war because they're currently in a war. Of course Israel won't do this and i never said they would. The point is that they have the option to do so. It's irrelevant that they won't ever do it, the point is they have the power to do so and that they don't exercise this option!

Yeah i know you acknowledge Hamas is bad. But it's still the point that if they had this option they would take out Israel without thinking twice.


What would happen to the land? it has already happen. (homer) The country (as i call it) is dead. Even if ur army stops this now, do you think they will be able to make a comeback as inform of getting back to being good? CLEARLY no.

You call this a war? Going against some group is not war man. Putting 90 bombs on a small country or putting on big bad ass one will result in same thing.

2 + 2 = 4
3 + 1 = 4

^ like that.
Its hard to say that option is used or not used.

I don't need to answer that last paragraph of yours since I already replied to that before.
  Posted on July 25, 2014 18:46
hebi212
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#15
saskue789 wrote:
hebi212 wrote:
kingofdarkness wrote:
So basically you guys give ur statements on basis of only this event?
For several years ppl in PALESTINE are suffering. They have no economy to support the country and then there are artificial barriers created by Israel over them.

They call hamas as resistance over all this which has been done.

"Also Israel has the power to wipe Gaza off the map completely but they don't. Ask yourself.. if Hamas had the power to wipe Israel off the map would they do it?"

^ This statement.
1- Just tell me what remains in that country other than some ppl starving for food?
2- Do you think IF Israel did that, Other countries will let it go?

Definitely, agree that cease fire agreements should have been accepted by Hamas. Since united Nations clearly said only 30% of hamas militants are killed in this all process.

Oh and before I get some shitty comments on my post.
THIS IS my Opinion. You have all the right to go against it. And Im against Hamas.
I'm glad you acknowledge Hamas is bad.
I'm not sure i understand what you mean by "1- Just tell me what remains in that country other than some ppl starving for food?"
Please elaborate?

Well that would be difficult to say. But the point isn't how other countries would respond rather that it is in Israel's power to do so. No i don't think it would start world war 3. But then again if Hamas had the power to wipe out Israel, do you think they care if other countries would let that go? Also do you think other countries would let that go?

Bang there's nothing wrong with posting your opinions, it's called debating for a reason.

saskue789 wrote:
nb is probably not the best place to ask but there aren't clear answers as isreal have committed mass murderers of civilians in gaza and a bunch of hamas militants, and hamas has been able to kill a dozen idf personnel.
Tell me what mass murders they've committed please. Also since you care so much for Arabs in Gaza you should also be aware that there's genocide going on in Syria as we speak - Arabs killing Arabs.

Hamas is a known recognized Terrorist group. So Hamas terrorists would be the more correct term instead of militants


i dont care what you call hamas, but the fact is air striking the civilian homes is not a good way to fight a war. Israel has enough tech and spec ops to take out hamas silently but they would prefer to air strike the whole gaza strip because its easier for them. Now, i dont care about the hamas nor idf, i care about civilians on both sides who are caught in the cross fire. Both the Hamas and Isreali Govt (not citizens) are equally responsible for whats happening

I've Been to a Church, Synagogue and Mosque and they all practically preach peace and love, but when we create these political distinctions people tend to start disagreeing and kill each other.

only resolution i see is someone creating a group of all 3 religions i mentioned above which preaches peace, love, and unity!
Yeah good luck with creating a new religion which would unite "all 3?" What do Christians have anything to do with this?

If you bothered following the war at all you'd know Hamas is purposely storing weapons systems and missiles in public places like schools hospitals and mosques. Israel gives warnings before attacking to evacuate and Hamas tells people to ignore Israel's warnings.
Hamas want their people to die so more anger and blame is pointed toward Israel.

Air strikes is a great way to fight a war. They try to kill our civilians why would we care for theirs? This way you also don't risk your own country's soldier's lives.

ISRAEL is not like that. They stopped air strikes shortly like i said before in my first post and are making serious effort to have minimum innocent casualties. By doing this they are risking their soldier's lives and they are doing it for the greater good.

Want peace? Don't have a terrorist group run your country.

kingofdarkness wrote:
hebi212 wrote:
kingofdarkness wrote:
Hey les. (not sure if that's you)

By that I mean, what remains in that country? they don't have proper supply of food, no clean water, bad infrastructure, 0 level of foreign investments, below average GDP a very horrible standard of living.

Urm ofc not a WORLD WAR#3 but could lead to war. by observing the amount of protests being conducted all over the world. will possibly result in something.

Why are you dragging that hamas point again? I clearly said Im against them. and yes they wont hold back. But you gotta understand. This is not just hamas, Innocent ppl are also being killed. therefore, Israel wont do it.

We had this convo sometime back in chat too. Like always healthy and interesting.
OK so to start off, what would remain? Nothing. Gaza would be bombed to smithereens and no life would be left there. What would happen to the land after no one knows.

Could lead to war? You mean a different war because they're currently in a war. Of course Israel won't do this and i never said they would. The point is that they have the option to do so. It's irrelevant that they won't ever do it, the point is they have the power to do so and that they don't exercise this option!

Yeah i know you acknowledge Hamas is bad. But it's still the point that if they had this option they would take out Israel without thinking twice.


What would happen to the land? it has already happen. (homer) The country (as i call it) is dead. Even if ur army stops this now, do you think they will be able to make a comeback as inform of getting back to being good? CLEARLY no.

You call this a war? Going against some group is not war man. Putting 90 bombs on a small country or putting on big bad ass one will result in same thing.

2 + 2 = 4
3 + 1 = 4

^ like that.
Its hard to say that option is used or not used.

I don't need to answer that last paragraph of yours since I already replied to that before.

I do call it a war. If you want to know what true genocide is, go visit Syria.
Gaza can make a serious comeback if Hamas is over thrown and they have a real government take the reigns. Tons and tons of money is donated to Gaza and once terrorists aren't leading it, you'll see the land flourish.

Instead of all the money being spent on weapons, you'll see them build a new "Singapore" which was the goal at the start.
Erdna.
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