Character Classing Thread - Page 2


 Topic: Character Classing Thread
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  Posted on May 7, 2014 09:19
Phonasthenia
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#16
Character Name: Mystique
Character Type: Mutant
Character Level: Low Tier
  Posted on May 7, 2014 09:27
l-o-w
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#17
Phonasthenia wrote:
Character Name: Mystique
Character Type: Mutant
Character Level: Low Tier

Added to the list.
  Posted on May 7, 2014 09:34
Phonasthenia
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#18
What about Rogue?
  Posted on May 7, 2014 09:35
l-o-w
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#19
Phonasthenia wrote:
What about Rogue?

Already added.
  Posted on May 7, 2014 09:35
Red_Sharigan
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#20
l-o-w wrote:
Red_Sharigan wrote:
@choppy: I think you mean you want something like this. I don't know how accurate the info in that link is but I think you mean to classify the chars in a similar way to this, right? I don't know how Markua can implement those details in the doc though.

I am not trying to make battle profiles, and I don't think Choppy means that either. There are a variety of levels a character can have.
If you take Gene (X men) for example, physically, she is low tier at most. Given the peak of her Phoenix force powers, she is much stronger, and from what I have seen high tier to planet tier.
I'm sorry but I'm ignorant to almost all the powers of any char from any comic, but I think I understand what you mean. In the Naruto verse for example, Nagato alone in one shot can take out an entire city, right? The current Sasuke can take him on and win fairly easily, but that Sasuke isn't capable of leveling an entire city in one shot, he at best (using Kirin) can take a mountain. That means if both were listed, you won't be able to put Sasuke anywhere above low mid tier while Nagato easily ranks in the mid mid tier group even though Sasuke is more powerful. And to solve this problem I suggested that the ranking should be based on the overall aspects of a char not just his/her destructive power. That is why I linked that wiki.

Of course there are tons of details listed there that are in no way useful to the ranking like gender, age and maybe the char's power and abilities, but there are others that are more than useful to use in the ranking system like speed, range, stamina, durability, etc.
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  Posted on May 7, 2014 09:37
Phonasthenia
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#21
Character Name: Pre-crisis Superman
Character Type: Uber-Human
Character Level: Multiversal
  Posted on May 7, 2014 09:41
l-o-w
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#22
Red_Sharigan wrote:
l-o-w wrote:
Red_Sharigan wrote:
@choppy: I think you mean you want something like this. I don't know how accurate the info in that link is but I think you mean to classify the chars in a similar way to this, right? I don't know how Markua can implement those details in the doc though.

I am not trying to make battle profiles, and I don't think Choppy means that either. There are a variety of levels a character can have.
If you take Gene (X men) for example, physically, she is low tier at most. Given the peak of her Phoenix force powers, she is much stronger, and from what I have seen high tier to planet tier.
I'm sorry but I'm ignorant to almost all the powers of any char from any comic, but I think I understand what you mean. In the Naruto verse for example, Nagato alone in one shot can take out an entire city, right? The current Sasuke can take him on and win fairly easily, but that Sasuke isn't capable of leveling an entire city in one shot, he at best (using Kirin) can take a mountain. That means if both were listed, you won't be able to put Sasuke anywhere above low mid tier while Nagato easily ranks in the mid mid tier group even though Sasuke is more powerful. And to solve this problem I suggested that the ranking should be based on the overall aspects of a char not just his/her destructive power. That is why I linked that wiki.

Of course there are tons of details listed there that are in no way useful to the ranking like gender, age and maybe a char's power and abilities, but there are others that are more than useful to use in the ranking system like speed, range, stamina, durability, etc.

I'm currentling still editing the document. Once I have successfully created a seperate sheet for each of the seven tiers, further expanding into a character's speed and skill could be taken into account. But for that, I would also need to come up with a draft on the differenciating levels for the aspects (unless Choppy comes up with it first). This project is still in the beginning phase, so there's a lot of room for improvement.
  Posted on May 7, 2014 09:43
Phonasthenia
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#23
Character Name: Itachi
Character Type: Shinobi
Character Level: Multiversal
  Posted on May 7, 2014 09:45
choppy
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#24
Red_Sharigan wrote:
l-o-w wrote:
Red_Sharigan wrote:
@choppy: I think you mean you want something like this. I don't know how accurate the info in that link is but I think you mean to classify the chars in a similar way to this, right? I don't know how Markua can implement those details in the doc though.

I am not trying to make battle profiles, and I don't think Choppy means that either. There are a variety of levels a character can have.
If you take Gene (X men) for example, physically, she is low tier at most. Given the peak of her Phoenix force powers, she is much stronger, and from what I have seen high tier to planet tier.
I'm sorry but I'm ignorant to almost all the powers of any char from any comic, but I think I understand what you mean. In the Naruto verse for example, Nagato alone in one shot can take out an entire city, right? The current Sasuke can take him on and win fairly easily, but that Sasuke isn't capable of leveling an entire city in one shot, he at best (using Kirin) can take a mountain. That means if both were listed, you won't be able to put Sasuke anywhere above low mid tier while Nagato easily ranks in the mid mid tier group even though Sasuke is more powerful. And to solve this problem I suggested that the ranking should be based on the overall aspects of a char not just his/her destructive power. That is why I linked that wiki.

Of course there are tons of details listed there that are in no way useful to the ranking like gender, age and maybe a char's power and abilities, but there are others that are more than useful to use in the ranking system like speed, range, stamina, durability, etc.

haha Red, you just said what I said in my first post. By taking into account more that just destructive capabilities you get a broader range of characters fitting into a single category and a more fair representation of who should be there. By creating a benchmark character or two that everybody knows it should make it easier to visualize the strength of a category.

So for example I might want to start a debate using Hatsu from Tower of God. You've never read Tower of God, so when you read that he can strengthen a lead pipe with aura to make it a strong weapon, it's hard to gauge how strong, since that's still relative to his universe. By placing him in a category and saying, 'people in this category have some destructive feats of this level, speed feats of this level and generally might be a good matchup for say, Zoro in a fight' you get a better idea of his strength.

Edit: Your example with Sasuke and Nagato is good since, like you said based on those feats Sasuke might be low-med mid tier and Nagato might be med-high mid tier. So while it looks like Nagato should win, there's still the window there for them to be thought of as a similar level and one could debate for Sasuke. I would think the purpose of this is for when someone matches up Goku with Naruto and we can easily point them to the much larger disparity in categories.

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  Posted on May 7, 2014 16:53
l-o-w
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#25
Phonasthenia wrote:
Character Name: Itachi
Character Type: Shinobi
Character Level: Multiversal

Multiversal...?
Added to the list.
Pre-crisis Superman as well. This version of superman can go universal at peak, but thats with the sword of superman
  Posted on May 7, 2014 17:11
spider3
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#26
How is Naruto a whole tier above Sasuke if they are overall equal ?
  Posted on May 7, 2014 18:18
l-o-w
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#27
spider3 wrote:
How is Naruto a whole tier above Sasuke if they are overall equal ?

Thats based on available feats of destructive capacity. Uchiha's especially, even if they can defeat and subdue mid mid tiers effortlessly, with the exception of Madara, there really isnt anyone that has shown the capability to to bust a city in a single blow. We haven't really seen any impressive destructive feat from current Sasuke as of yet.

By classification, both of them are mid tiers, so there really isn't much of a hassle.
  Posted on May 7, 2014 18:53
Red_Sharigan
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#28
choppy wrote:
Red_Sharigan wrote:
l-o-w wrote:
this

I am not trying to make battle profiles, and I don't think Choppy means that either. There are a variety of levels a character can have.
If you take Gene (X men) for example, physically, she is low tier at most. Given the peak of her Phoenix force powers, she is much stronger, and from what I have seen high tier to planet tier.
I'm sorry but I'm ignorant to almost all the powers of any char from any comic, but I think I understand what you mean. In the Naruto verse for example, Nagato alone in one shot can take out an entire city, right? The current Sasuke can take him on and win fairly easily, but that Sasuke isn't capable of leveling an entire city in one shot, he at best (using Kirin) can take a mountain. That means if both were listed, you won't be able to put Sasuke anywhere above low mid tier while Nagato easily ranks in the mid mid tier group even though Sasuke is more powerful. And to solve this problem I suggested that the ranking should be based on the overall aspects of a char not just his/her destructive power. That is why I linked that wiki.

Of course there are tons of details listed there that are in no way useful to the ranking like gender, age and maybe a char's power and abilities, but there are others that are more than useful to use in the ranking system like speed, range, stamina, durability, etc.

haha Red, you just said what I said in my first post. By taking into account more that just destructive capabilities you get a broader range of characters fitting into a single category and a more fair representation of who should be there. By creating a benchmark character or two that everybody knows it should make it easier to visualize the strength of a category.

So for example I might want to start a debate using Hatsu from Tower of God. You've never read Tower of God, so when you read that he can strengthen a lead pipe with aura to make it a strong weapon, it's hard to gauge how strong, since that's still relative to his universe. By placing him in a category and saying, 'people in this category have some destructive feats of this level, speed feats of this level and generally might be a good matchup for say, Zoro in a fight' you get a better idea of his strength.

Edit: Your example with Sasuke and Nagato is good since, like you said based on those feats Sasuke might be low-med mid tier and Nagato might be med-high mid tier. So while it looks like Nagato should win, there's still the window there for them to be thought of as a similar level and one could debate for Sasuke. I would think the purpose of this is for when someone matches up Goku with Naruto and we can easily point them to the much larger disparity in categories.


I probably misunderstood Markua's reply to my post and I ended up repeating what you said. So sorry about that... >.<

Anyway, I think I got an idea that could help list chars. How about a databook? A one similar to the one Kishi made, but a more refined one. Relying on choppy's benchmark char idea, we can have for each aspect a power scale that goes from 0.5 to 10 and increments by a 0.5 (for it to be a bit more detailed). We can call them "levels", for each level we can have a benchmark char who other chars will be compared to and given a score according to the difference in power between those chars and the benchmark one in that certain aspect.

For example (I will be using the Naruto verse to explain all this but it should apply to all verses if approved), let's say in speed, by feats right now the fastest in the Naruto verse is Guy, so he will be considered the benchmark char for the level 10 in the speed department. Now I want to measure Sasuke's current speed and I know (by feats too) that Madara (possibly the best reaction speed in the verse right now) couldn't react to Sasuke (when he cut him in half), but at the same time we know that Sasuke's speed isn't equal to Guy's, so Sasuke is given a 9.8. As you can see this score is very vague and has very little basis to rely on (what made me choose 9.8 and not 9.9? I don't know, maybe intuition?), but if this catches Markua's attention and he says he wants to apply it, we can work on tweaking the way scores are given to reach an almost fair and logical way in giving scores to chars.

Regardless, I think you get the basic idea of what I'm saying. The same applies to every level, a benchmark char is selected and all chars who are believed to rival or be near his power level in a certain aspect are compared to that benchmark char and given a score after a proper comparison.

How do we select the benchmark char for each level in every aspect? Well, first of all, the level and the aspect that the benchmark char will be selected for is announced (in this thread) and then a separate topic is made (preferably in the Colosseum, to avoid spam posts) and each member posts the one he thinks should take the benchmark place of that certain level in that certain aspect with a fair argument supported by facts and feats present in the manga and the judge (or judges, depending on which is better) based on the argument and the feats presented decides the rightful char for that position.

Finally, every char has his scores summed to create the final total score of every char and through it we can categories each char in either the low, mid or high tier categories, which each should house every char who has a total score between two specified total scores.

I think if we form this using the big three only (and maybe DBZ too) for starters and then expand later, it will be better, as not all are familiar with a lot of series besides those. Also, including chars from comics in this will be a bad idea, since the differences in power level between those and anime chars are way too big to the point that it is fair to assume that chars from comics will easily fill benchmark char position on every level from 5 to 10 with anime chars failing to compare. So if you want a different databook could be made for chars from comics.

I know this is going to take way too much time to complete and I also know this is more work than whatever Markua hoped for when he created this but besides being a time consuming, it will:
1. Give the Colosseum some liveliness since I feel that it simply died.
2. Give concerned debaters something worth debating for. Since this is going to be posted in the Colosseum (no spam/fanboyism-driven posts) and at the same time they will not be arguing in a spite topic (like the many that seem to suddenly swarm BD right not).
3. A database that has been made by the collaboration of the concerned debaters in the BD, which most of them will agree to what is stated in it.

Edit: I just realized that having a benchmark char occupy every level from 0.5 to 10 is going to be troublesome. Should the benchmark char for every level be cancelled all together and let's have a a benchmark char for the entire aspect and compare others to only him?
|| Egyptian
|| Awesome Avy by Sorina

Itachi wrote:
People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define reality. But what does it mean to be correct or true? Merely vague concepts… their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?
  Posted on May 7, 2014 19:13
spider3
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#29
l-o-w wrote:
spider3 wrote:
How is Naruto a whole tier above Sasuke if they are overall equal ?

Thats based on available feats of destructive capacity. Uchiha's especially, even if they can defeat and subdue mid mid tiers effortlessly, with the exception of Madara, there really isnt anyone that has shown the capability to to bust a city in a single blow. We haven't really seen any impressive destructive feat from current Sasuke as of yet.

By classification, both of them are mid tiers, so there really isn't much of a hassle.

I see, so you're counting solely DC here and not overall power, right ?? Then Sasuke is placed fine, though I think Ichigo is misplaced, unless you believe Mugetsu (the strongest tech he displayed thus far) can destroy a whole city or more.
  Posted on May 7, 2014 19:54
l-o-w
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#30
spider3 wrote:
l-o-w wrote:
spider3 wrote:
How is Naruto a whole tier above Sasuke if they are overall equal ?

Thats based on available feats of destructive capacity. Uchiha's especially, even if they can defeat and subdue mid mid tiers effortlessly, with the exception of Madara, there really isnt anyone that has shown the capability to to bust a city in a single blow. We haven't really seen any impressive destructive feat from current Sasuke as of yet.

By classification, both of them are mid tiers, so there really isn't much of a hassle.

I see, so you're counting solely DC here and not overall power, right ?? Then Sasuke is placed fine, though I think Ichigo is misplaced, unless you believe Mugetsu (the strongest tech he displayed thus far) can destroy a whole city or more.

What makes you say that?
SoFarAway.
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