Butterfly Choji (Current Manga) vs Itachi SPOILER - Page 3


 Topic: Butterfly Choji (Current Manga) vs Itachi SPOILER
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  Posted on July 17, 2011 16:06
adrianhhh777
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#31
Itachi wins.

Chouji can have all the power he wants. Without a way too handle Itachi's incredible Genjutsu, it will be useless.
  Posted on July 17, 2011 16:37
gerronix11
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#32
-The thing is, he got caught while on the ground, not in the air.. So, how can you say that even though you can fly, you can still target them with amaterasu? Its out of range... And Choji can move dead quick...

-How can you say its not fast as Raikage....? It clearly is.. Jirobou said, "whatever you do, its too late!" but was proven wrong.. You can't just say, he move fast.. he's very fast.. There isn't even any sign that he moves from place to another.. Its kinda like he teleported.. The thing is, they never seen the jirobou fight.. And Choji didn't really use his speed feats in the war.. So how can they comment in that.. He didn't have to use his speed because every punch he gives doesn't miss (I think)... And just because they did not compare it raikage doesn't mean, he's not that fast.. Its common-sense.. Characters in the series doesn't have to explain it all.. Both of your eyes seen it... And its not a substitution-like... First, substitution works only if you set it up.. And its a jutsu.. Choji didn't use some kind of substituion... He's on the ground and just if he did not take the red-pill then his dead... The butterfly mode makes him move so fast... that enemies doesn't really notice him moving...
  Posted on July 17, 2011 18:29
tupapi_the_best
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#33
-The thing is, he got caught while on the ground, not in the air.. So, how can you say that even though you can fly, you can still target them with amaterasu? Its out of range... And Choji can move dead quick...
Click
He was in fact flying adn when he got hit, he skidded unto the ground. BY the way Amaterasu doesn't really have a range. As long as the user can see the object he wants to burn, it will catch fire. And Chouji has only shown this supposed "Raikage" like speed once and that was with the pills. If he really had all that speed your bragging about, then why wouldn't he use it in the war? These ninja are way more dangerous than Jirobou, so they require for Chouji to use his strength and all the abilities he has.

-How can you say its not fast as Raikage....?
Easily.

It clearly is..
Your bias is granting Chouji all these abilities that he doesn't even have.

Jirobou said, "whatever you do, its too late!" but was proven wrong..
He didn't expect Chouji to have a burst of speed. I mean Chouji is slow all the time even in Shippuden.

You can't just say, he move fast.. he's very fast..
He moves fast. However he doesn't move at the speed of which the Raikage moves.

There isn't even any sign that he moves from place to another.. Its kinda like he teleported..
There wasn't a sign that Kakashi moved in back of Kakuza before he used Chidori on him, does that mean Kakashi is faster than Raikage or teleported? No. All it means is that Kakashi moved fast enough to not be noticed, just like Chouji.

The thing is, they never seen the jirobou fight.. And Choji didn't really use his speed feats in the war..
Why wouldn't he? Wouldn;t that be the perfect counter to fighting non-dying people with the power Chouji has so that he can get the drop on them so they can be sealed. Obviously if he doesn't use it in the war it was a one time fluke from using the red pill and he won't be able to use it right now.

So how can they comment in that..
Kishimoto goes into the details of moves so obviously if he was faster than the Raikage, it would be noted.]

He didn't have to use his speed because every punch he gives doesn't miss (I think)
Because each time he punched someone, they were either pinned, stunned, or slow. With the Sharingan and Itachi's skills, none of the things would happen.

... And just because they did not compare it raikage doesn't mean, he's not that fast..
For Christ's sake, you have no proof he moved that fast. Even Jirobou wasn't that surprised by his speed. All it was a "!" exclamation point. If he moved as fast the Raikage, it would warrant more of a reponse.

Its common-sense..
You have a habit of using this phrase when it's unnecessary or when the situation calls for proof.

Characters in the series doesn't have to explain it all..
Obviously they and ninja databooks do.

Both of your eyes seen it...
And what I saw was not Raikage speed.

And its not a substitution-like... First, substitution works only if you set it up.. And its a jutsu..
Still doesn't change the fact that you need to switch places with the object. It's not a teleportation jutsu, so obviously it's using speed in order to substitute.

Choji didn't use some kind of substituion... He's on the ground and just if he did not take the red-pill then his dead...
He probably used the same speed as substitution. The red pill was probably the thing that gave him the speed.

The butterfly mode makes him move so fast... that enemies doesn't really notice him moving...
No the butterfly mode doesn't. If it did, Chouji would automatically use his speed during his fight. The butterfly mode that he used w/out the pills just replicates the effects of the red pill mode, it doesn't grant them a perfect copy of it. Also as I mentioned before, the Sharingan could keep up with the Raikage's speed so yeah Itachi would notice him moving.
Also Itachi can react to the speed of lightning. No person in naruto w/out the help of teleportation jutsus move as fast as lightning. So yeah...Chouji still won't be able to keep up even if he did have this "Raikage speed" you made up. And you still didn't answer how Chouji is supposed to break genjutsu or Tsukyoumi, although we all know he can't.
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  Posted on July 17, 2011 22:10
Ninja-Whirlpool
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#34
gerronix11 wrote:
@Whirlpool
First, Choji can fly out of range, like a butterfly.. Genjutsu doesn't work if he's that high... Lol at your comment how you say Itachi was 10000000000 faster than Choji.. Did you knows that if a turtle is 10000000000 faster than never before.. It can run like Flash? You probably don't know that.. Cause you don't even know how fast Choji is in butterfly mode against jirobo.. If you watch the fight, Jirobo was about to smash Choji (While lieing down) and he like dissappears... Can you explain that? Jirobo didn't even know that Choji is behind him standing.. Meaning that he didn't see choji evade the attack.. When Itachi fights, you can still see him moving... So I can even sit here proud to say that Choji is twice as faster than Itachi in his butterfly mode...

@Tupapi
He can fly out of range as i said, so amaterasu is useless... Im guessing, you don't read manga...

If Chouji uses expansion jutsu, what the hell does it matter if he can fly away? No it doesn't. His mass increases so it would be 1000 times easier for Itachi to use Amateratsu. I seen Chouji vs Jiroubu 3 times dude. In both anime and manga version of that fight Chouji did not prove himself to be as fast as you say. Itachi will win this easily, you are clearly underestimateing Itachi(very foolish of you). Just a pathetic genjutsu will end the battle between them.

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Itachi vs Bee!
  Posted on July 18, 2011 22:49
Minato-Sempai
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#35
Chouji is nowhere near as fast as A, you need to face that FACT now. And he's also extremely weak-minded. He would see Itachi looking all BA in his Akatsuki robes and crap his pants and faint.

But seriously, Chouji stands no chance. Itachi could hit him with Amaterasu, or regular fire techniques. Or Tsukuyomi. And if Chouji goes giant mode, his eyes will also be bigger, which presents a bigger target for Tsukuyomi. 3 days worth of mind-rape in a second, and Chouji wouldn't ever so much as piss without a body guard. Face it, your favorite character has no place among the big boys.


Ships: Kakashi/Yūgao, Lucy/Natsu, Ichigo/Rukia, Luffy/Robin, Goku/Bulma (Some of em are weird, but I don't care, I'm odd like that )

Spoiler
RIP Shikaku and Inoichi My sympathies go out to Shikamaru and Ino!
RIP Neji! That's even worse :cry
  Posted on July 19, 2011 00:45
tupapi_the_best
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#36
Minato-Sempai wrote:
Chouji is nowhere near as fast as A, you need to face that FACT now. And he's also extremely weak-minded. He would see Itachi looking all BA in his Akatsuki robes and crap his pants and faint.

But seriously, Chouji stands no chance. Itachi could hit him with Amaterasu, or regular fire techniques. Or Tsukuyomi. And if Chouji goes giant mode, his eyes will also be bigger, which presents a bigger target for Tsukuyomi. 3 days worth of mind-rape in a second, and Chouji wouldn't ever so much as piss without a body guard. Face it, your favorite character has no place among the big boys.
O..M...G...BURNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROFLMAO
MInato, this is the best comment you have ever made! I actually did a LMAO irl. No need to be that harsh xD. Piss w/out a bodyguard. oh that's a new one!
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^I live by this
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-Mukuro Rokudo

Best Mind Rape quote ever. KHR <3
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  Posted on July 19, 2011 03:35
Minato-Sempai
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#37
Why, thank you. I thought it was a pretty good one myself :) I was just quite awestruck at the situation. I mean, how could anyone seriously think that Chouji is anywhere near as fast as A or that he stood any chance against Itachi, even without Susano'o. Honestly, there are really a select few characters that Itachi would need to use Susano'o against anyway.


Ships: Kakashi/Yūgao, Lucy/Natsu, Ichigo/Rukia, Luffy/Robin, Goku/Bulma (Some of em are weird, but I don't care, I'm odd like that )

Spoiler
RIP Shikaku and Inoichi My sympathies go out to Shikamaru and Ino!
RIP Neji! That's even worse :cry
  Posted on July 19, 2011 04:26
tupapi_the_best
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#38
Minato-Sempai wrote:
Why, thank you. I thought it was a pretty good one myself :) I was just quite awestruck at the situation. I mean, how could anyone seriously think that Chouji is anywhere near as fast as A or that he stood any chance against Itachi, even without Susano'o. Honestly, there are really a select few characters that Itachi would need to use Susano'o against anyway.
:3


I tried explaining to him that that instance of speed was not as fast as the Raikage. BUt somehow he assumes just because we didn't see him move because Kishimoto didn't draw him, he's automatically faster than the Raikage. But in all honestly if my boy Itachi really wanted to scar the kid(Not that he would :3), he would torture him for as long as he can keep up the genjutsu. Imagine 2 weeks of being stabbed mentally w/out a break. Not even Tsunade would be able to heal that much psychological damage.


btw When will Ch 8 be ready? I wanna know wat happens next D:
Thanks to Andy my bish for the Sig
Someone wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Except when their opinion is blatantly wrong.
^I live by this
"Illusions... or real illusions. Within the illusions hide real illusions... from the real illusions, the illusions are created. Within the truth hides the lie... within the lie hides the truth. That is the Mist."
-Mukuro Rokudo

Best Mind Rape quote ever. KHR <3
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  Posted on July 19, 2011 17:51
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#39
@Tupapi_the_best
-Yeah, like that was actually high above the sky... It wasn't and he's not even using his speed to keep out of that amaterasu.. That's why he got hit. The Speed Choji shown in butterfly mode while fighting Jirbo was more than enough to dodge Amaterasu just like what Raikage did. What are you talking about with the pills? Its not the pills that makes him move so fast, its his butterfly mode.. And now he doesn't need pills to transform into it. Again, what's the point of using it if he doesn't have to... Its like baking a cake for no one.. o_O

-Next time, at least reply to a paragraph.. Not by words or phrase..

-Its not bias... And how can you say biased, when you can see the proof I gave you

-Yeah right.. You'll say a person in the ground lieing down with his enemy standing in front of him, (Jirobou's legs was right beside his hips.. blocking his path) and then standing up and run behind is just because he's fast.. Maybe you try to do that.. Lie down on the floor, and ask your friend to stand up blocking your path (like jirobo did) and try to stand up as quick as possible and run behind him.. (I know Im comparing it in real life, its just to tell you what speed did Choji actually did)..

-Can you tell me the difference of the speed that they did in the manga??.. Seriously, How fast would you actually expect choji to do (the time he dodge jirobou's attack)... That's how fast can it go..

-The thing is, we didn't know where Kakashi actually came from when he attacks kakuzu.... Who knows, maybe Kakashi was just actually behind Kakuzu 3 meters away (more or less).. while in Choji's case, its hardly for anybody to dodge that attack that Jirobo was about to land, in his situation...

-He doesn't have to.. I mean what's the point?.. He can defeat his enemies without using his speed.. That is like trying to run while you actually just going to catch a turtle..

-Kishimoto does but not always using other characters to express how fast the certain character actually is... And they wouldn't note it always.. How about Lee and Gai's speed in their gates?? Seriously, don't tell me that its not as fast as Raikage.. You are kidding me if you say its not.. Have you ever heard somebody comparing their Speed to the Raikage??

-Hizashi and Kakuzu weren't one of those things you've just explained.. So as Asuma...

-Exactly!, Jirobou was speechless.. Meaning he was shocked.. And I already explained that they don't always compare everybody's speed to raikages.. and what do you mean no proof? I gave it you remember?

-Obviously though.. I always say that phrase cause you don't use it.. If somebody was running in a running competition.., Does the person next to you have to say "Oh, he's really fast!" for you to actually believe that his fast? And I already give you proof.. Was that not enough..?

-Databooks do, but not the characters in the series everytime..

-Not Raikage Speed? WTH?? Somebody dodge something like he teleported from nowhere... Seriously what else? Give me something that can be more faster than what CHoji did!

-Choji didn't swap places with an object.. o_O, he just dodge it..

-He can do butterfly mode without red pill you know...

-Do you have any proof? Im pretty sure I don't need to use my common-sense on that..
and not really.. Sasuke weren't able to keep up with Raikage speed in his Sharingan and he nearly died just if gaara didn't save him

He can react with the speed of lightning but probably can't keep up.. And about Tsukoyomi.. Fine, he can't do anything.. but that if he got caught with it.. Itachi touches Sasuke and look at kakashi's eye to actually do Tsukoyomi...
  Posted on July 19, 2011 17:52
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#40
Itachi. Chouji isn't a genjutsu ninja, so he'll lose
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  Posted on July 19, 2011 18:01
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#41
Itachi would win easliy.

Choji being faster than Jirobou isn't a testament of his speed. Hell, Konohamaru would look like he moved at the speed of like compared to Jirobou. That's why Jirobou has a lot of ranged attacks that can be used all around him, to counter his slow speed.

Basically, comparing anybody to Jirobou in speed is like comparing Gai in his 7th Gate to Kisame in terms of speed.

And also, Choji wouldn't be able to fight Itachi without looking at him, and once he does, he's in a genjutsu. It's honestly as simple as that. If you can see Itachi, you're most likely already in a genjutsu.
  Posted on July 19, 2011 18:41
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#42
gerronix, just give up! CHOUJI IS NOT AS FAST AS A IS! Get over it. He wasn't, he isn't, and he never will be. A is leaps and bounds faster. That's that. Get over it. And even if somehow he miraculously was, the second he looks at Itachi, he's in one genjutsu, and then while he's immobilized by that, Itachi can look at his eyes and mind-rape him with Tsukuyomi. Chouji stands no chance whatsoever.


Ships: Kakashi/Yūgao, Lucy/Natsu, Ichigo/Rukia, Luffy/Robin, Goku/Bulma (Some of em are weird, but I don't care, I'm odd like that )

Spoiler
RIP Shikaku and Inoichi My sympathies go out to Shikamaru and Ino!
RIP Neji! That's even worse :cry
  Posted on July 19, 2011 18:43
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#43
choiji is fast and strong/ Itachi has susanoo and Amaterasu Chouji dies
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  Posted on July 19, 2011 18:50
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#44
Minato-Sempai wrote:
gerronix, just give up! CHOUJI IS NOT AS FAST AS A IS! Get over it. He wasn't, he isn't, and he never will be. A is leaps and bounds faster. That's that. Get over it. And even if somehow he miraculously was, the second he looks at Itachi, he's in one genjutsu, and then while he's immobilized by that, Itachi can look at his eyes and mind-rape him with Tsukuyomi. Chouji stands no chance whatsoever.
PROOF?? My proof is enough to tell you that choji is that fast.. And why would I even give up? Choji is powerful more than anyoneelse in the series and kishimoto proves that.. Especially his role in the war that makes a hell lot of impact..
  Posted on July 19, 2011 19:34
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#45
@Tupapi_the_best
-Yeah, like that was actually high above the sky... It wasn't and he's not even using his speed to keep out of that amaterasu.. That's why he got hit. The Speed Choji shown in butterfly mode while fighting Jirbo was more than enough to dodge Amaterasu just like what Raikage did. What are you talking about with the pills? Its not the pills that makes him move so fast, its his butterfly mode.. And now he doesn't need pills to transform into it. Again, what's the point of using it if he doesn't have to... Its like baking a cake for no one.. o_O
Chouji wasn't flying high in the sky either. :/ And he was flying as hard as he could, he realized he was going to get caught by it so he just let himself get caught so he could set up the final stage for Kirin. For the last time, the speed he had does not match Raikage. Just b/c he didn't draw Chouji moving doesn't mean he as fast as the raikage. And like you said, the butterfly mode when he fought Jiroubou granted him that speed. That mode is when he used the pills. Without the pills, he can replicate the effect, but it won't be 100% like it. He just uses the willpower to replicate the effects. Nothing like it being powered by the pills. And I ask again, what's the point of not using ur speed in a war which will determine the fate of the ninja world? It's like not shooting ur gun in a war. It's stupid. Chouji doesn't have the speed.

-Next time, at least reply to a paragraph.. Not by words or phrase..
Already explained and you're the only one who thinks so. So I had no need to use a paragraph.

-Its not bias... And how can you say biased, when you can see the proof I gave you
Your biased since ur adding speed and other things that Chouji has shown not use continually or used at all. You are glorifying his skills just b/c you're a fan of his. I do have an Itachi bias, but I have the proof and it has been shown he has the power to beat everyone.

-Yeah right.. You'll say a person in the ground lieing down with his enemy standing in front of him, (Jirobou's legs was right beside his hips.. blocking his path) and then standing up and run behind is just because he's fast.. Maybe you try to do that.. Lie down on the floor, and ask your friend to stand up blocking your path (like jirobo did) and try to stand up as quick as possible and run behind him.. (I know Im comparing it in real life, its just to tell you what speed did Choji actually did)..
-sigh-I will explain this to you one more time.
1. Anime rules of physics are not the same as real life.
2. I said he has enhanced speed. If he had the speed of the Raikage, then he would've flung back Jiroubou by just the raw speed of getting up.
3. Kidomaru has shown faster speed than him, does that mean Kidomaru is faster than both the Raikage?
4. Click
Click
Kakashi managed to do better than Chouji. He was completely held down and pinned and yet he managed to escape and substitute a clone. Is he faster than the Raikage? No. So will you give this theory that Chouji is faster than the Raikage a rest?


-Can you tell me the difference of the speed that they did in the manga??.. Seriously, How fast would you actually expect choji to do (the time he dodge jirobou's attack)... That's how fast can it go..
omg...they both moved fast, but Kishimoto didn't draw them moving fast. Does it mean that they move at the speed of light. NO It juts means he didn't draw it. And considering the speed of the Narutoverse, he wasn't moving that fast. He already was cocking his fist by the time Chouji was consuming the pill. He had ample time to dodge it.

-The thing is, we didn't know where Kakashi actually came from when he attacks kakuzu.... Who knows, maybe Kakashi was just actually behind Kakuzu 3 meters away (more or less).. while in Choji's case, its hardly for anybody to dodge that attack that Jirobo was about to land, in his situation...
He was hiding behind a rock the entire time looking for an opening. There was no rocks near Kakuza when he was fighting. He was way farther than 9 feet. Read the chapter before saying stuff. Kakashi managed to do substitution while being pinned by Naruto. It was impossible for him to dodge it to us, but obviously he did it. I repeat Chouji is not as fast as Kakashi.

-He doesn't have to.. I mean what's the point?.. He can defeat his enemies without using his speed.. That is like trying to run while you actually just going to catch a turtle..
W/out using this "Raikage speed" how do you expect him to dodge Amaterasu or Tsukyoumi. Or in fact any of Itachi's genjutsu. You even said earlier that Chouji was weak against genjutsu and the databook ranks him @ 1 in terms of genjutsu. I know databook isn't everything, but there's a reason why it recorded at the lowest possible number.

-Kishimoto does but not always using other characters to express how fast the certain character actually is... And they wouldn't note it always.. How about Lee and Gai's speed in their gates?? Seriously, don't tell me that its not as fast as Raikage.. You are kidding me if you say its not.. Have you ever heard somebody comparing their Speed to the Raikage??
Kakashi need the Sharingan to keep up with Lee's speed and all he said was fast. Doesn't mean his speed is at the Raikage level. it may be close to the speed of the Raikage, but it's not close to it. And if you demonstrate Raikage like speed, then people who survived encountering that person would spread the word how fast it is. Either way, Chouji is not faster than Gai.

-Hizashi and Kakuzu weren't one of those things you've just explained.. So as Asuma...
What you talking about?

-Exactly!, Jirobou was speechless.. Meaning he was shocked.. And I already explained that they don't always compare everybody's speed to raikages.. and what do you mean no proof? I gave it you remember?
Chouji didn't even demonstrate that speed again, ever, during the fight or the subsequent battles after it. I gave you proof Kakashi's speed surpassed Chouji's. Does that mean he's faster than the Raikage? NO. It's obvious during his battles he's not.

-Obviously though.. I always say that phrase cause you don't use it.. If somebody was running in a running competition.., Does the person next to you have to say "Oh, he's really fast!" for you to actually believe that his fast? And I already give you proof.. Was that not enough..?
You always misuse that phrase. And I don't use it because people like you need proof and explanations in order to prove even the most basic, simple point. And I don't need it to believe how fast it is, but I do need footage of two people running to compare their speed in order to determine who's faster. And that was not proof. Even if it was, I provided proof he does not move as fast the Raikage and plenty of characters have shown to move faster than him. I also provided proof he has never moved that fast ever again.

-Databooks do, but not the characters in the series everytime..
They don't explain it all the time, but we use the databooks in order to find out in detail how the technique works. The databook never says Chōdan Bakugeki grants the user speed. For all we know, Chouji could've used the same speed as substitution. As long as I have seen people move faster than him and the official databook doesn't say it grants him speed, I don't believe for an instance he is faster than the Raikage.


-Not Raikage Speed? WTH?? Somebody dodge something like he teleported from nowhere... Seriously what else? Give me something that can be more faster than what CHoji did!
Provided evidence already at above points.

-Choji didn't swap places with an object.. o_O, he just dodge it..
You need speed in order to switch places w/ an object and time to set up an optical illusion. Much more work in a small amount of time then just moving out of the way of a punch.

-He can do butterfly mode without red pill you know...
But the questiong is, does it perfectly grant him the strength and powers as the red pill does?

-Do you have any proof? Im pretty sure I don't need to use my common-sense on that..
and not really.. Sasuke weren't able to keep up with Raikage speed in his Sharingan and he nearly died just if gaara didn't save him
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v49/c463/1.html Good game. If it wasn't for the lightning cloak having such durability, Raikage would've died. He kept up with it, managed to find an opening, exploit, and did an fatal attack. He also managed to set up an Amaterasu shield when Raikage kept trying to break through Susano'o.

He can react with the speed of lightning but probably can't keep up.. And about Tsukoyomi.. Fine, he can't do anything.. but that if he got caught with it.. Itachi touches Sasuke and look at kakashi's eye to actually do Tsukoyomi...
He doesn't need to keep it up. Only to put Chouji in his place. I also haven't even brought up Susano'o in this fight yet. Do you really want me to go there? Because if I do, I guarantee nothing you say will be able to debate about anymore.

PROOF?? My proof is enough to tell you that choji is that fast.. And why would I even give up? Choji is powerful more than anyoneelse in the series and kishimoto proves that.. Especially his role in the war that makes a hell lot of impact.
JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY SO DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE. He's not more powerful than anyone in the series. The Shodai could control all the bijuu and managed to defeat Madara who had control of the Kyuubi. Do you honestly think Chouji is stronger than the Kyuubi? The Kyuubi which managed to wreak havok among Konoha and needed sealing methods to take it down. Do you honestly think he is stronger than the Paths of Pein? He got owned by 2 of them and would've died if it wasn't for his father and Kakashi. If you honestly think so it's gone beyond ignorance and is getting close to stupidity.
Thanks to Andy my bish for the Sig
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