The Altar [ READ POST #130 and #137] - Page 3


 Topic: The Altar [ READ POST #130 and #137]
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  Posted on February 19, 2016 15:44
GeobeasT007
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#31
Hinata is very bad compared to all other Nin-Tai users we use in wars she can't be called average.
Best ever,
  Posted on February 19, 2016 15:50
Masta_J
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#32
GeobeasT007 wrote:
Hinata is very bad compared to all other Nin-Tai users we use in wars she can't be called average.
you're cute.


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  Posted on February 19, 2016 15:51
Keith
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#33
Hinata is actually a pretty balanced character lol.
  Posted on February 19, 2016 15:55
senpai
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#34
Masta_J wrote:
sanin-orochi wrote:
Masta_J wrote:
Hinata - B-

I know for most to see Hinata over C is ridiculous, but if you really examine her skills you'll nope that she's extraordinarily powerful just has a bad chakra roll. Starting with her prep that gives 15 DR as mentioned before with naruto/sasuke/Kiba 15 Dr is is quite a bit for flat reduction especially vs non piercers. It also boosts her other abilities substantially. giving her gentle fist skill a drain on both turns will guarantee either a stun drawn to her, or a defense ability used earlier than intended, either way disrupting an opponents plan. Her aoe then goes up to 20 damage and as this is her bread and butter attack she can drop a lot of aoe damage while protecting her team. Her 3 abilities are mental/chakra/physical which makes her hard to stun out completely. The problem with her as I mentioned really is her chakra draw. If she wasn't a nin/tai user she would surely be in the meta. Like if her aoe cost red instead of blue, she would have been in teams the way hiashi was. However because she takes up the 2 most important chakra slots she gets outshined by the sasukes, the narutos, and the YKs of the game. However if she gets a chakra color change or a random dropped off either of her abilities while prepped expect to see her dominating the ladder/war scene.

I beg to differ. Yes, the chakra roll is a MAJOR setback for her and that in itself is a negative trait that can hardly be overlooked. I completely agree that her AoE and multiple classes are her selling points but imo that's not enough to turn a blind eye to flaws. As of now C+ seems perfect for her.

C-Rank - Reserved for characters that have notable niches, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective.

If she ever gets changed as you've pointed out, then she'll be B rank, perhaps even A-, for sure. This is all just my opinion, though.

B-Rank - Reserved for characters that are great but not exactly amazing. These characters have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support

As stated here the difference between c and b rank is the number of flaws the character has. From what I said and from what I've read she only has one those being that she is nin / tai although it's a big one, I don't think that, that one flaw is enough to mirror all of her positive qualities evenly. Which is why by default I put her in B, although she is in B- which is the closest to C.

However, if there were no +/- she would be a shoe in for C no question.
I see where you're coming from, but my point here is that that one flaw is so big that her positive traits aren't enough to outshine it. Take Naruto for example, he's at B because despite his lack of piercing damage, vulnerability to most stuns and over reliance on his prep, everything else is good enough to make him a force to be reckoned with. Hinata on the other hand absolutely has to be paired up with stronger characters to back her up.

But I will take your input in consideration, if anything you managed to convince me she could be placed two whole subranks above where I originally intended to rank her (C-).

Keith wrote:
Hinata is actually a pretty balanced character lol.

Agreed, but that's really not the point we're addressing here. :)
  Posted on February 19, 2016 15:58
GazeRockNotDead
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#35
GazeRockNotDead wrote:
Kiba B
Good AOE skil. 15 for 3 turns and damage reduction aaaand garuga costs one random chakra less. There is nothing wrong about this skill. Can be stopped by stun so that's why it's balanced the way it is.
Air marking is also a good skill but it lasts only 2 turns . Could be better. Garuga last of Kiba's skill. Pretty balanced skill. Kiba does not look good while 1v1. But it's only my opinion. He's the best when 3v3 making his aoe worth.

Hinata C++ XD
Sorry Hinata ;/// Her kit looks like "lets put some random,bad skills". Even if I say her skillset is bad,she is not that worst. You can combine her skills with other characters making her more useful than she seems to be. Her AoE is pretty good but not in damage/cost wise. She does some good defence. She is more defensive character so you gotta match up her with some damage. There is another thing that makes her quite good. Her chakra affecting skill. Let's put it with something that makes target unable to go invulnerable.

Shino after League match
Shino B- or even C
He used to be good. 15 affliction with no cooldown and that steal. Yeaa he was so op. Why not nerf just a little bit. Now he is so bad. only 5 damage more for one cooldown and one random chakra added. Let's talk about second skill. Female bug. There is nothing I can say more than ok,this skill fucks all combos that are supposed to do 100 damage. Third skill is pretty good overall. Good DD for OK cost. But that's one good thing about Shino
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  Posted on February 19, 2016 16:03
Masta_J
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#36
senpai wrote:
Masta_J wrote:
sanin-orochi wrote:
I beg to differ. Yes, the chakra roll is a MAJOR setback for her and that in itself is a negative trait that can hardly be overlooked. I completely agree that her AoE and multiple classes are her selling points but imo that's not enough to turn a blind eye to flaws. As of now C+ seems perfect for her.

C-Rank - Reserved for characters that have notable niches, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective.

If she ever gets changed as you've pointed out, then she'll be B rank, perhaps even A-, for sure. This is all just my opinion, though.

B-Rank - Reserved for characters that are great but not exactly amazing. These characters have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support

As stated here the difference between c and b rank is the number of flaws the character has. From what I said and from what I've read she only has one those being that she is nin / tai although it's a big one, I don't think that, that one flaw is enough to mirror all of her positive qualities evenly. Which is why by default I put her in B, although she is in B- which is the closest to C.

However, if there were no +/- she would be a shoe in for C no question.
I see where you're coming from, but my point here is that that one flaw is so big that her positive traits aren't enough to outshine it. Take Naruto for example, he's at B because despite his lack of piercing damage, vulnerability to most stuns and over reliance on his prep, everything else is good enough to make him a force to be reckoned with. Hinata on the other hand absolutely has to be paired up with stronger characters to back her up.

But I will take your input in consideration, if anything you managed to convince me she could be placed two whole subranks above where I originally intended to rank her (C-).

Keith wrote:
Hinata is actually a pretty balanced character lol.

Agreed, but that's really not the point we're addressing here. :)

Understood, I also see your point and wouldn't mind her being placed in C+, even if I still personally believe B-


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  Posted on February 19, 2016 16:27
129393a
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#37
Kiba - B
Kiba is a pretty solid character. Most of the times he is used for his really good AoE, which last 3 turns and gives him a nice 15 points of DR. His Dynamic Marking is also really nice against characters who rely a lot on invulnerabilities or heavy DR while also increasing his damage. Kiba, like many AoE heavy characters, is of course vulnerable against counters or characters who decrease his damage, though overall Kiba is a strong and solid character who is also really fun to use.

Shino - C+
Shino is in my opinion a good example of a character who is really difficult to balance. We all know how strong Shino can be (think of how he was when he first got optimized). Yet after getting that nerf he really hasn't been used much in high level ladders or even in wars. Shino is drainer and is decent at that, he can decrease his opponents damage ouput and provide some decent DD for his team. Sounds good, but it is still is a bit underwhelming. Yes he can be good, but only if he is paired with some other strong support or drainers. Overall not the worst, but there are better options if you really want to have a drainer in your team.

Hinata - C
Hinata is in my opinion a very meh character. Her skill set relies a lot on her prep, granted that doesn't necessarily mean that is bad thing (see Naruto for example). Yet in this case it is. When prepped Hinata has the ability steal chakra and provide some defence for her team, while also dealing some AoE damage. Fact is that she can be easily stopped, her drain last for 2 turns, so you can simply stun her or just go invulnerable. The AoE damage she deals is pretty much ineffective and the DD she provides for her team also is quite poor. I just see no mean in using her, since there are many better options. Hinata is also a character that can only peform good when supported by strong team mates.
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  Posted on February 19, 2016 23:57
Monkey_D_Luffy
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#38
Masta_J wrote:
Sakura - A+

The Queen of Brazil since 07. Her prep is insane because she ignores all effects except kushina, fuck that char, or shika fujin. That alone for 1 random would be enough, but she also gains DR, and has a 1 chakra no CD 30 damage stun available for the duration. Her heal isn't amazing but it is substantial enough to keep her team afloat and ensure that combines with her prep will make her win 90% of 1v1s
This is the reason why she needs to be classed as a s-rank. Furthermore, she has a stun that renders one of the most overused classes in the game useless. I don't see why everybody is ranking her less than s rank.

I hope people don't think s-rank means flawless characters, because there are no flawless characters in this game.

s-rank wrote:
Reserved for characters that are simply amazing. These characters are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Characters in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.


and often abused by the majority of the players within the game

^^ please add this somewhere in there, unless you don't count character usage in this discussion.


"I wanna prove that I'm number one over all these niggas
Bein' number two is just being the first to lose"
  Posted on February 20, 2016 00:09
sanin-orochi
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#39
Masta_J wrote:
Sakura - A+

The Queen of Brazil since 07. Her prep is insane because she ignores all effects except kushina, fuck that char, or shika fujin. That alone for 1 random would be enough, but she also gains DR, and has a 1 chakra no CD 30 damage stun available for the duration. Her heal isn't amazing but it is substantial enough to keep her team afloat and ensure that combines with her prep will make her win 90% of 1v1s
This is the reason why she needs to be classed as a s-rank. Furthermore, she has a stun that renders one of the most overused classes in the game useless. I don't see why everybody is ranking her less than s rank.

I hope people don't think s-rank means flawless characters, because there are no flawless characters in this game.

s-rank wrote:
Reserved for characters that are simply amazing. These characters are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Characters in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.


and often abused by the majority of the players within the game

^^ please add this somewhere in there, unless you don't count character usage in this discussion.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit : quotes are fucked up lol

Well yes, of course I'm not expecting to find a flawless character. You're correct about that, but here's why I don't encourage ranking anything above A+ for now : We've just started. For example, lets suppose we move X character to rank B, then a bunch of other characters also start getting B-ranked whilst X character remains still obviously better than them. What happens? X characters rises through the ranks. That is what's probably going to happen to Sakura, but for now she's fine at A+, which is the closest she can get to S without taking the risk of fluctuating the whole thing so early on.
Also, here:
Usage may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them.

But I'll think of a way to address it without turning the whole S rank into an "put the abused characters here"-rank.


I will update this in a hour or so.
  Posted on February 20, 2016 00:18
Jeffreaky
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#40
I'm too lazy atm to write everything, so just a small text about each of them.

Hinata
Not even gonna be classing her any higher than C rank honestly. She is overall bad character, that has potential too be good, but is awful at her current state. Not only is her damage weak and useless since most of the characters in the game have some sort of DR, but it's also really cost heavy. Not spammable and let's not forget she is tai/nin user, and doesn't do anything to win you the game. Her drain is okish, but still too cost heavy and you will never get the second turn off, so yeah. Her aoe does little to no damage for 2 chakras, and let's not forget she has a prep that she needs to use to make her skills useful.
Rank: C


Shino
Meh, i dont have words to describe what a horrible character they made him into. He doesnt fit almost any team composition since he does 20 damage every other turn, and gets outclassed by many other characters out there. His DD also isn't that great and his reduction should honestly have no cost at this point.
Rank: C


Kiba
Kiba is a meh character in my opinion. His AoE is his bread and butter. Get it off early and you win the game simply with that, or not get it and have useless character on your team. Kiba can honestly be a game changer but at the same time be the most useless char out there. Even so, looking at his concept as a whole, i really do like his prep and think it is really a strong ability, while his 30 is kinda underwhelming while not boosted by the aoe. All in all, pretty average, works in some comps and needs good chakra.
Rank: B
  Posted on February 20, 2016 00:48
Monkey_D_Luffy
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#41
sanin-orochi wrote:
For example, lets suppose we move X character to rank B, then a bunch of other characters also start getting B-ranked whilst X character remains still obviously better than them. What happens? X characters rises through the ranks. That is what's probably going to happen to Sakura

Ok, i understand the "it's to early to set an example of a S-Rank character". As for your example, I highly doubt a character will be misplaced in a rank they don't belong in for two reaons: First reason, I'm sure you guys (the staff of this thread) have a grading process you follow before finalizing a characters rank based off the feedback you get. Second reason, most n-a characters are so bland it's not hard to distinguish the useless chars from the useful chars.


Side note: Gonna double post with my feed back on "Team 8" if someone doesn't post after this.


"I wanna prove that I'm number one over all these niggas
Bein' number two is just being the first to lose"
  Posted on February 20, 2016 01:02
senpai
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#42
Monkey_D_Luffy wrote:
sanin-orochi wrote:
For example, lets suppose we move X character to rank B, then a bunch of other characters also start getting B-ranked whilst X character remains still obviously better than them. What happens? X characters rises through the ranks. That is what's probably going to happen to Sakura

Ok, i understand the "it's to early to set an example of a S-Rank character". As for your example, I highly doubt a character will be misplaced in a rank they don't belong in for two reaons: First reason, I'm sure you guys (the staff of this thread) have a grading process you follow before finalizing a characters rank based off the feedback you get. Second reason, most n-a characters are so bland it's not hard to distinguish the useless chars from the useful chars.


Side note: Gonna double post with my feed back on "Team 8" if someone doesn't post after this.
Haha, I totally agree with you to be frank and quite a few people here indeed pushed Sakura for S-rank, but I still felt it was too soon and chose to take it slow. I'll keep in mind to bring Sakura's ranking up again some other time, though.
  Posted on February 20, 2016 04:35
Fennekin
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#43
I've wanted something like this for a long, long time but cannot stay commuted to such a task; great to see someone else take the initiative!

B
A little bit diverse because he acts as a supporter outside of Wolf, but with that AoE up he becomes dominant on offense. However, that AoE is expensive and his role as a supporter is mainly niche without a lot of standout traits; plus his skills mainly share the same, easy-to-counter classes, and he has a lot of competition as a taijutsu or a tai-blood character.

C-
Like Masta said, a once metagame-ruling character that's fallen far from grace due to the revamps. Female Bug is much weaker now that damage-reducing offensive skills are more common, his damage is abysmal despite the Affliction class, and 20 DD isn't as great as it once was, especially with that high cooldown. He faces stiff competition from Hashirama but at least has some perks, plus he's good for drain-heavy teams and starter players who can only use defaults, which is why he avoids the Dick-tier.

B-
Hinata is a bit of an awkward character but can certainly add one trait: pressure. With her prep, she can deal good AoE while giving defense or decent DoT while draining. On her own, her prep gives her good defense and her class range is wide, so she can be surprisingly tricky to deal with. Just giving her a Mental invul. would make her a lot better, probably. However, she demands a lot of chakra for her positives to actually come into play and mainly needs to be consistent. I can see her dropping into C-tier in the future, maybe, but I think B- is fair for now.
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  Posted on February 20, 2016 09:04
sabuto78
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#44
GeobeasT007 wrote:
Naruto

I'd put naruto in rank B cause he has good defense, he is very useful with stun + 30 dmg spike with 1 chakra. he can be used in different type of teams.

B

Sakura

One of the best characters in N-A if its used by skillful player its almost no chance to lose. ignoring everything, stun 0 CD heal on any char with 0 cd.

A+

Sasuke

He is almost unstopable when he uses sharingan, he wins 90% of battles in 1v1, has 15 dr. He has 55 and 45 spike attacks with Chakra and Random.

His 3 offensive skills are : Chakra , Physical , Mental

A
Such writing skills lmao. Very descriptive

Quoting so he isn't ignored.
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  Posted on February 20, 2016 09:06
GazeRockNotDead
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#45
Damn seems like Team Kurenai will get the worst team of the Naruto-Arena award
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